Thursday, June 05, 2008

Love and Marriage?!?! Maybe...but not today....

Pardon video quality...seems to be hit or miss these days...

78 comments:

Will said...

I hope everything works out well for you and your kids!

Anonymous said...

have been coming here for a while and never felt compelled to comment until today. It must be wonderful to live in a world where commitment and honor mean nothing and you can blow off responsibility while being happy about it. How's it going to feel when your wife remarries and has some other guy influencing your kids? Oh, that's right, in Dave's world everyone loves one another and only "good" feelings exist. Fuck Off Jaffee, you're a pussy.

da criminal said...

anon, clearly you are the more honorable one, posting anonymous on someone else's blog about a subject you know know nothing about.

I am not sure where you got my lack of commitment in the post however. I am 1000% committed to my children and my exwife (as the mother of my kids). You do not know- nor will you know the details of how deep that commitment goes because it is private. But rest assured, my kids are my life.

That said:


I am NOT committed to the institution of marriage. I was for a while, now I am not. If you want to go off and follow an archaic institution even if it is not making you happy- and model that soul crushing behavior for YOUR kids, then be my guest.

David

Rey said...

dubbel post?

i know this is none of my bussines but how do your kids fell about this?

death race 2000 (remake)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OH62ZvkYwsw

that vid wont be up for long

hay jaffe did you get Ninja Gadien 2 yet? if so what you think?

Otaku 38 said...

If there is something that I know about a divorce situation is to never hurt the people that you were (or are) with. I've stopped by your blog every now and then and well, it sure is surprising knowing that something like this could happen to someone like you. I'm not someone or anybody special that can judge people as that guy who called himself "anonymous" by just talking shit in which case it seems he's just a kid with no mind. But well yeah!!! back to the point. My parents got divorced because my dad left my mom and well I can tell you that I really needed my dad when I needed him the most. It hurt me a lot and well the way that I think about him too!!! I sure as hell wanted to do something in order to make him regret it. So you could say this is a way of saying that just be a great parent to your girls so they never think that "OH. My dad left us because he just wants to make games!!!" That kind of thing you know. So yeah that's pretty much it.

PS.

I'm the guy who told you that has some ideas cooking inside his head when you posted that you needed someone to work for you. Just respond back if you can ya know!!!

da criminal said...

Otaku, thanks for the kind words.

Yeah, if I may be clear:

I am not WALKING OUT on my kids or us as a family unit.

I love my kids and I love my ex-wife.

We just don't want to be married anymore.

We still want to be a great family, even if that family definition changes as- in time- I bring another woman into my life and she finds a new man to do the same with. Someone once said to me that people can always use another person in their lives to love them. And hell, if my 2 girls have MORE people who are crazy about them one day, then what more can a dad ask for?

Ok, no time to respond anymore- gotta get my day going! Thanks for the post!

David

milkman said...

Marriage has lost something over the years. It's honestly starting to become almost a joke, divorce has became so common that most people write it off as no big deal. I'm not trying to be a dick but to just act like well me and my wife just don't want to be together anymore and that's it seems pretty ridicous, there is a bigger picture especially with children in your life. I'm not doubting that you still won't be a good father but it seems as your just brushing off your shoulder and being like whatever it's just a divorce...I mean I don't know maybe it's because I haven't been in this situation yet but marriage has lost what it means and I know that much...

st00pidity said...

your my fucking hero man, like superman taking a bullet, you just let this shit bounce off you and take the best out of what most people would consider a bad situation.

anonymous must not visit this blog enough. when i watched, the last thing i was thinking about was your kids, knowing that even if the game changed the same rules applied and that both you and your ex put your kids first, rule #1.

your a great guy jaffe, and with this blog you've provided me and others with a lot of inspiration.

(i did a whole comment without saying vaj...oh shit.)

Jools said...

Hey David,

I've been checking out your blog for a little while now and I respect your ability to be so honest with your posts, but I was not expecting a post like this today. Sorry and congrats are in order I suppose. :)

I have a question - if you don't mind me asking (and there's no cynicism in this question):

“How do two people who love each other and share kids with one another logically decide to get divorced?”

I am happily married with kids and firmly believe that we'll stay married because we not only love each other, but also like each other. It seems that you have the same relationship with your wife/ex-wife, but have decided to get divorced. Why is that?

This question may be too personal - I don't know - but that is the question that popped into my head.

Good luck. Look forward to the next post.

Jools

StareClips.com said...

Divorce is a very tricky thing. On one hand, marriage is (by definition) the unbreakable bond between a man and wife. So, when that bond is broken with divorce, it redefines marriage as a temporary union between two people. In other words, it reduces marriage to long-term dating.

I think it is important for me to mention that I have been divorced once, so I am not completely typing out of my ass. If I had my way, and if I were completely in control, marriage would be forever, period. Unfortunately, things happen beyond your control, and divorce can happen when you least expect it.

Given this disclaimer, I see both sides of this coin and want to comment on both.

On one side of the coin, you have people who are almost "angry" with you... because, in your video, you talk about feeling "positive" and "good" about divorce. To some teenagers who might read this blog, this sends a message that divorce is just one of those things people "just do" in life... like getting married... buying a car... going to Disney World... and getting divorced on the way home from getting groceries. The nonchalant attitude gives the impression of a smiling happy person sipping tea who just recently slaughtered a family of four. In other words, it sends signals and impressions that perhaps the world would be better off not seeing.

And now the other side of the coin. The pain anyone dealing with divorce is feeling is nobody else's business. So, the fact that there are plenty of negative aspects to divorce needn't necessarily be shown to the world, or at least not at this point. It is still a private matter. Some people cope with the stress and anguish of divorce by trying to maintain a positive outlook. So, giving the benefit of the doubt, this is likely what is happening here.

For me, personally, divorce was never even an option for me growing up... it was just never on the table. Life was all about finding your soul mate, getting married, and living the rest of your life with that person. I wish I could say that my divorce was some sort of "mutual decision" on good terms, but it wasn't. It was something that hit me like a ton of bricks when I was least expecting it.

So, if you had asked me about the topic of divorce when I was, say, 20... I would have said, "it's never going to happen to me." If you had asked me about my divorce AS it was happening... I would have said, "this is the worst thing that has ever happened to me... I am in my own personal hell right now. I want to die." If you were to ask me about my life right now... I have found a wonderful person to share my life with... we are married... and I now have a step-son. I wouldn't trade the life I have now for anything in the world.

This is where things get tricky. Given the fact that I am so happy right now, am I then an advocate of divorce? No. Divorce is kind of the equivalent of mass-murdering all of your friends. You may find newer friends... you may find better friends... and you may quickly get over the death of your old friends... and in this manner you may, in a way, learn to appreciate the outcome of the act. But it doesn't change the fact that it is mass murder. It isn't something to be proud of.

I would never recommend any person to consider divorce to be an option. Sometimes marriages break down because a lack of proper communication. Sometimes lots of communication can take place, but if it is the wrong king of communication, it can do more harm than good. Sometimes marriages break down because of unrealistic expectations. I think this is because, in most marriages, when there are problems, the parents try to hide these problems from their children. So, from their children's perspective, their parents were happily married and had no issues. Everything was perfect. So, when these children grow up and get married, if things aren't "perfect"... then it clearly wasn't meant to be, which is unrealistic. There are many other reasons marriages break down, such as infidelity, mental illness, etc...

In any case, some might consider me to be hypocritical for having been divorced, but saying that divorce should never be considered a viable option. Sometimes divorce is like a terrible car wreck. Would I recommend someone try to get into a car accident? Certainly not. [Not unless you're playing a video game. ;) ] Have I ever been in a terrible car accident? Absolutely. It wasn't something I planned... or tried to do... I made mistakes... I had poor judgment... I swerved left when I should have swerved right... in the end, a terrible car accident was the result. I have moved on from this and am now healthy again... living life again... forever with the memory of that tragic event... although I don't regret the place in life that I am in right now, I would never want to portray to someone that getting into a car accident... or getting divorced... is ever something someone should consider to be a intentional part of their present or future.

So, David... I hope you and your wife are in a place where you could possibly still find a way to work things out with each other, if not for your sakes, but for your kids' sakes. It shouldn't be taken lightly the kind of affect divorce has on children. Do children of divorced parents live happy normal lives? Many do. Can some children fall 30 or 40 feet to the hard ground below and not break any bones or suffer any brain damage? Quite a few do. Would you want to test this theory by willfully watching your child fall 30 or 40 feet to the hard ground below when you have the power to stop this from happening? I would hope not. I'm not trying to pass judgment, I'm just trying to give a little perspective.

If, in the end, your divorce continues, and you end up permanently separated (even if still good friends,) I wish you all the best, especially your children. You seem like a decent person, and I really enjoy playing the games you're involved in. I really hope you don't take any offense to anything I have said... I have stated most of it for the world at large who might view your post as a lack of commitment. Sometimes life throws such a huge curve ball that we fall flat on our faces. Only you know the full picture in your situation... so only you can try to figure out the appropriate response. Keep your chin up, but not too high... otherwise you're just looking down your nose at everyone else. ;)

GrYnder said...

Weird that the video quality craps out every few posts.

Anyway, this post really surprised me. Just because I don't think I've ever really seen a post here about something 'negative'. I mean you're definitely keeping a positive outlook on things, and I say negative for lack of a better word, but as you said your blog does seem to revolve around either your job or the happier aspects of your life (Great movies, outings with the kids, etc.) To see all aspects of your job and your life makes the blog a very interesting one to follow because you never quite know what's gonna happen.

I really enjoy this blog, it's cool to see what's going on behind the scenes, to see how the life of a game designer is. Heh, not to say every game designer has an identical life... but... you know what I mean.

Look forward to your next post.

GrYnder said...

Sorry to double post, but:

"your my fucking hero man, like superman taking a bullet, you just let this shit bounce off you and take the best out of what most people would consider a bad situation."
-st00pidity.

I just thought that was a really great way to put it. I love the fact that you're looking at the positive side of the entire thing.

Torgo said...

Wow! Sorry to hear about this David.

da criminal said...

stareclips- taking a typing break (design doc) and saw your long, kidn, thoughtful post and figured I'd take a quick sec away from typing one thing and type something else:

Obviously this is a private situation. I hate the word private because it packs an assumption that there is some sort of smoking gun. But there isn't, it's just that the details are between me and my family and it's not my place- or my desire- to share them.

But I want to address your thoughts at a higher, less specific-to-me level...well sort of...I'm typing so it's all kind of specific to me :) Here's the deal:

I don't think the Hallmark idea of marriage or true love or soulmates are a real thing. I don't mind that I may be giving some folks the sense that marriage is just a thing you do because- reality is- it IS just something you do. I am not religious so I see no sacred aspect to it. It feels like a bill of goods people have been sold. But if you look at divorce rates and if you look at the % of cheating within marriages that do stay together (and for the record, there was NO cheating in my union), you have to concede that while marriage may work for some people, the idea of painting it with a idyllic brush and telling people that it is what they should strive for is unrealistic and potentially cruel.

But look, you've been to the blog. You know I'm a very liberal person. I'm agnostic, I like to smoke pot from time to time, and I don't buy into alot of society's ideas for what is right and correct. Never have. Not opposed to those who do and who are conservative, but it's just not me.

Also- as for kids- man, I am so crazy nuts for my kids. And trust me, there's no 'weekend dad' stuff going on here with us. Me and my wife see them- and will continue to see them, play with them, love them, eat with them,etc every day. I had kids cause I wanted kids. I'm not looking to change that...even if/when either of us remarry.

And as for damaging them, my discussions with kids of divorce (we did our homework) shows that most kids were hurt because one or both parents fought like crazy and then- in the end- just up and left and were not all that involved.

To keep a marriage going where both partners really no longer wanted to be married- to me- sends a very bad message to kids. Instead of showing them how to take changes and the value of change and following your gut and dreams, it tells them to stay in a situation that is not working for them...for what? Just because society says so? Not how we're raising our kids. We want our kids to be free thinkers. If they WANT to be married and WANT to be religious and all that, good for them. But it will be because they chose to do it.

Ok, back to typing my OTHER tome! :)

Thanks for posting dude. I do appreciate the thoughts, insights, and experiences!

David

ps. and by the way, to those who are thinking I'm JUST looking at the bright side, a few things:

a- I have been sad and continue to be sad at times. I'm not sayings HEY! THIS ROCKS! IT'S GREAT! but I do think it's for the best and I allow myself to keep perspective...in the same way that getting fired from a job often turns out to be the best thing that ever happened.
b- As the Buddha says: life is impermanence. Suffering comes from not accepting that and from clinging. I try not to cling and try to accept and enjoy the changes that life brings. Makes life more fun.
c- I have two healthy kids, I am healthy ,my friends are healthy. There are people today who have lost family and friends to sickness and accidents. How can I be anything but grateful for the life I have?

timetabletwist said...

Dave-

What else can be said other then I hope the decision was for the best and I wish you the best of luck!

Bill said...

Hi David,

As a wise man once said: "Love is an anchor that drowns a man."

I think the best a creative professional can do for him/herself is to be committed to themselves and their passions. And not until they have truly and fully expressed their creative energies do they settle down and distract themselves with love, marriage and children.

I think you start to lose focus when someone else's needs are involved and subsequently your work will suffer.

Granted this is coming from a film student who has no experience in those realms I do have enough friends and family in these situations from where I can formulate this conclusion.

Your brain starts losing mass at age 20 so make sure you utilize all your creative wit before it's too late!

- A.M.

Fourzerotwo said...

I for one, really appreciate the personal / honest side of this blog, and is the #1 reason I'm an avid reader of it.

It's the reason I started doing video blogs myself, and still look to it as inspiration on how to be more personal in my own blog posts (video or not).

I want the same, to have a personal connection with my readers, but typically end up falling into the "about the business" blog most of the time.

As for the judgmental comments, presuming to know what is the morally right and wrong for everyone, what the fuck?!

Marriage is a mutual-bond between two people committing to each other. Therefore whose to say that it can't be mutually broken? How can you justify telling two people who mutually committed to each other that they cannot mutually agree to not be committed to each other?

I fully agree that Divorce has a reputation of being devastating, but that doesn't mean it's a devastating act. It can be, but it doesn't have to be. I would much rather see / experience a mutual divorce where the family unit stays a family unit rather than a marriage degrade into no communication and a prison of resentment.

Kudos David. Looking forward to future posts, and have fun on your Gaming Sabbatical.

Anonymous said...

Dave,

Having just gone through the same thing over the past year I can honestly say you're going about it the right way 100%. Staying close with your close friend/ex-wife is a true testament to how much love there has been and will be between the 2 of you. It's a weird thing when you love someone enough to let go because you know they may be happier with someone else. It's really hard to truly wrap your brain around at first but as time goes forward it gets alot better and that love you shared becomes such a close bond as you both try to find your way after what you've been through. I've stayed very close with my ex and people think I'm crazy for it but I don't understand people who just let go after divorce and never look back. How can you share such a close bond with someone and not remain close. I feel like I honor the time I had with my wife by always making sure that we remain close. We both tried so hard to make it work but we're human beings and as we grow sometimes we just grow apart. It's so simple...but so difficult at first to truly understand...

One thing I can definitely say is just give yourself time to decompress from it all. This is a big deal and even though you may feel OK today there will be times in the future where nothing makes sense. It took me a long time to get through it. I actually got into a relationship not too long after my marriage and it was the worst thing I could've done because I wasn't ready. So just give yourself time and don't feel like you have to rush back to it because like me you may find that on the outside you're ready but on the inside you're not.

Take care,
Chris

Anonymous said...

It's a long road that leads to Zoloft. Good luck.

Murderdolls said...

I can't really speak from marriage experience seeing as I'm only 17 but I have 2 parents that absolutely hate each other and they always have(20+ years). My entire life my parents have bitched and fought morning to night and It's gotten to the point where I dislike waking up to the fighting I can't wait to move out and get away from it so I applaud you for preventing this happening to your kids.

Anyways I'm rambling good luck with everything I really didn't see this coming at all.

Twisted Metal for life! =)

Jools said...

Completely off subject: do you still use LinkedIn?

Your profile has you listed as still being at Sony.

grasshopper said...

Hey David best of luck to you and your family. Its kinda disappointing how things turn out sometimes but I hope your all able to get through it and to make it work.

Anonymous said...

Dude, maybe your married to your hobbies instead of your wife.

twist3drick said...

Very shocking news Dave!!!

....but on a positive note:

THIS IS GOING TO BE THE DAMN BEST TWISTED METAL EVER!!!!!! and your going to have all the time in the world to make it..

-TWIST3DRICK

SolidSephiroth said...

this was a shocker dave! I must say i come to the blog because your one of my fave developers/game designers and you generally have great news. I see what you mean however on marriage and it being a burden at times. Sometimes is seems much better to just relax and take it one step at a time and do things that make sense for you and her. Im really glad that this ended up being a mutual HAPPY decision. I have to admit one of the first things I thought of was "Shit this is gunna affect his game!" haha well chin up Jaffe, i know your going to be happier than ever down the road! It always stings at first!

Kittonwy said...

My condolences, maybe it's for the best, good luck with everything.

Rickboi said...

You know Dave, I never thought I'd learn anything of lasting value from your blog, I'd always used it as a day to day source of interesting anecdotes and thoughts from someone I don't know personally, but you really opened my eyes with this one.

I'm going through a rough time with my long-time girlfriend and we're on the road to a breakup, and I've been thinking of this as nothing as a negative. The entire process of this has been tearing me apart from the inside-out. After listening to your feelings about your own separation I now realize that this doesn't have to be a completely negative experience.

Some things just aren't meant to continue and to end the relationship means an end to the fights and the turmoil and the stress, and the chance to wipe the slate completely clean and start all over. And I hate to go back to this old cliche, but we only have so much time on Earth, it makes no sense to spend more than a good amount of it trying to fix something that you know isn't going to work.

It's amazing what you can learn from people who you don't know.

G.W. said...

Fuck that anonymous character who posted at 7:59.

If it's a mutual split, then I guess it's for the best. But even though it sounds cliched, I'm sorry Jaffe. You seem like (and I only say seem because I don't know you personally) a guy who loves your family a lot and for this to happen, even though it is a mutual split, it must be extremely tough on you, your ex and your kids. I send you my deepest sympathies.

I mean, I've been in a relationship before where we both dragged it out for as long as we could and it was miserable. I was just crazy about this girl and after like 5 months, she really started losing interest, and just stayed with me because she felt sorry for me. But it sounds like you and your ex-wife are ready to move on and if you're still great friends then that's awesome. Your relationship with your kids shouldn't suffer at all. That's a very, very good thing.

I hope everything goes well, and you're a better man than me because even though I know you're sad, you're still looking at the brighter side in a dark situation. I'm not good at that AT ALL. I cling on to stuff and it's hard for me to let go, especially if the situation is negative. Negative things seem to take a bigger shot at me and last longer than positive things (which is not good). Hopefully I can take a page from your book.

Hope all goes well.

-G.W.

p.s. got that PS3 on e-bay. I'm getting Warhawk and Call Of Duty 4. Hope to play with you at some point on those if you have them. My thoughts are definitely with your family. You're the man.

G.W. said...

I mean to say you and your family there at the end.

-G.W.

Barsinister said...

I am regret the way I stated what I did in my earlier post (second post). I guess you came off as smug to me. I will post this with my username.

You made a statment similar to the question, "Why do people say that they are sorry when there's a divorce?" I would like to answer that if I may be so bold.

When most people get married, they do so with the traditional vows of love, honor, etc., until death do they part. When they do that they make a sacrament, a promise. Upon hearing that one, for whatever reason, failed to live up to that promise, it is with sympathy and maybe even a little pitty. It is done with good intentions, not out of some "archaic institution".

You strike me as a pretty reflective guy, but also pretty impulsive. That video was the first thing I saw this morning and it just rubbed me wrong. I am sorry that I posted it and please delete if you want.

Travis Judd said...

David Jaffe don't worry about all these anonymous people or just people in general coming on to YOUR BLOG and insulting you. A lot of people and myself included respect you with the highest most respect.

Your life is your choice and if you and your ex-wife/good friend decided that this is the best decision then that perfectly okay. I really hope you can find the perfect someone in your life and that you stay very close to your kids.

PS. David Jaffe I have been a huge fan of your work since Twisted Metal 1 on the PS1 and if you could add me on the PS3 that would be like a dream come true. My PSN account is DeathMammoth. I Hope to see ya online bye.

PM said...

your right about the hallmark unconditional love being bullshit. i believe at times every marriage can be a shit ton of hard work to keep together. and sometimes you reach a point when you have to decide if the work is worth the reward.

also, fuck that guy who said your walking out on your family. my parents were divorced when i was very young and i never felt like my dad was walking out on anything. though my entire childhood i never had a doubt in my mind about me and my brother being the most important things in both my parents lives. looking back at my childhood i don't think i would change a thing.

barsinister said...

In "God of War", at the end of the game where Kratos is shielding his family, I must say that that was one of the most evocative things I have ever experienced in gaming.

I don't think you put it there just on a whim. You knew full well that on some level that theme would be very powerful to gamers. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, after all it is just a game. In your very game, you used themes and ideas that are very "tradational" and speak to some of us on a fundamental level.

I have heard someting twice this week and I would like to pass it onto you. Michal Jordan was asked to stump for a Democrat candidate during the height of his populartiy. He declined with the statement, "Republicans buy shoes too."

Rex said...

Well Dave, let me tell you I did wnet through a Divorce, and is just a new chapter. I am glad that you said you guys decided to be firneds... because a divorce in bad terms is the worst. In my case we agreed to get a divorce.. but in the process you cant imagine man... it was sad, since I had 2 step children a little kid of 6 and a girl of 10. I used to play Battlefield with the kid since he was 3 years old. Then we palyued some CONTRA Shattered Solider, DIABLO, WARHAMMER 40K DAWN OF WAR, and many more games. He was like my best friend. But aftert the divorce.. isnce I wasnt his real dad, she wanted to cut our communication... and prohibited the kid of talking about me. That shit hurts. But in your case, they are your daughters and you said you will be commited to them so its cool you will be sharing with them. I also have a kid of my own, her mother (who I was with before my exwife) right now is my friend and her boyfriend is one of my best friends (dont ask), so it all works out.. eventhou they live like 2 hours away. Anyways the thing is.. yes its not a bad thing... bad would be if you stayed in something that aint working out and could've get worse.. and end up being enemies isntead of friends. So, I wish you the best dude. Everything is not forever. Yeah... I still pay the house I bought when I got married... that sucks... but going to sell it this month. Brutal.

Rex said...

On a lighter note, I went to see Kung Fu Panda yesterday on the PREMIERE (Again in puerto rico movies are released one day earlier), and its a good movie, no lame jokes, straight to the point and some good action scenes. Take your daughters and then eat some china food afterwards.

-rallyRAYS- said...

Mr. J,

Wish you the best on your new life direction!

cheers,

rallyRAYS

greekdude247 said...

Hey David,

I'm sorry to hear about the marriage not working out, but I'm happy that your looking at it on the positive side. And I'm thrilled also because, its sounds like your gonna have an easy divorce since you say your wife and you are still close friends. My parents had a horrible divorce and it was kind of hard for me. Just, I know you know this but, be there for your kids at this time, because from their perspective, even if they say they are ok with it (they could be, I was), its still very weird and new for them. Just know you have your reader's support. We all fans of you David. We would never want to see you sad. Keep looking to the positive side of things and you'll see the rough patch pass faster than you thought.

Firen said...

Hey Dave,

It's unfortunate you had to deal with this matter, but i'm happy to hear that you are taking care of the situation with the utmost maturity. Hope you, your kids and your ex continue to be happy and healthy.

Best of luck to you man!

erico316 said...

david
i will say its brave for you to reveal your private life.I also want to wish you the best of luck and always do what is best for you and to anyone who try to bring u down about this tell them to fuck off!

Ken Z said...

Hey Jaffe,

Appreciate your honesty, man, and your willingness to share.

I wanted to say "I'm sorry," but after hearing your story out, I know I'm not in a position to say whether it's a good thing or a bad thing.

In any case, it is a bump in the road and I hope you and your good friend/ex-wife stay strong and stay friends.

Poeticus said...

David, do you feel that the separation had something to do with you being a game designer and it being just more of a time issue? Or do you think that your career had nothing to do with it?

If it's too personal, then please don't answer, I'm just curious as I'm planning on working in the industry in the future.

GrYnder said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
GrYnder said...

Of course it'd be hard to look on the bright side every step of the way, but the way you are presenting yourself to us, you seem to be keeping your chin up and not completely drowning in the sorrow like a lot of people tend to do at a time like this. You look like you're taking this situation very well, where as others may not be able to.

Nokage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nokage said...

Now i understand why you were browsing around Redtube the other day! haha jk!Wish you and your family the best Dave.

Marc Alva said...

i hope you go over this well, and it looks like you are not too down. Im not trying to bee mean but i had an idea in my head that the next video blog is you with this huge scruffy beard and a white tang top with an orange stain on your chest and alcohol bottles everywhere and its you crying and trying to form a sentence. i ment that as a joke,

I hope for the best for you and your old lady and children

PS. Ex-wife/Husband sounds a little to cruel imo

Anonymous said...

I don't like how this was phrased or the opinions expressed, period. That is an awful perversion of marriage, of parenthood, and of divorce.

skeptic said...

You've always given me the impression that your life is close to perfect, especially due to a couple of your blog entries talking about how happy you are, but now this happens and like others have already said, I'm absolutley shocked. This just goes to show you can't judge someone's life simply by what they outwardly present it as.. That's not to say you're no longer happy or anything, but surley there's some very harsh negativity thats occurred/occurring between you and your ex-wife which has led this divorce. I could be wrong though, and you both could have just decided to very politely? move on, but that sounds extremely doubtful to me when talking about a love relationship.. Anyways, best of luck! Hopefully someday I can look upon my personal life with such a benign perspective.

TenaciousCK said...

I would post the youtube video, but it will not let me, so heres a link instead.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QqMiigy92qU

Wow, how surreal. I was just talking about YOU and THIS very subject on my blog. David Jaffe and family. How.Fucking.Coincidental?

Do whats best for you Jaffe. Actually, do whats best for your children, yeah? You and your wife are currently the architects of their future. Give them a sturdy foundation, and I'm sure they'll build you something you'd have never imagined.

Ru said...

I dig you perspective on the situation. From what I've seen I share your views. The fact that you and your partner see eye to eye makes it that much better. In my opinion that's the truly mature way to handle things. On a personal level you're one of the game designers I model myself after, thanks for the inspiration.

Mango said...

I was gonna post the following but then I realized I was writing more for me than you.
Thank you for being so open in a world where we get taught to be closed.
All the best and God bless.

ps. here is what I was gonna write origionally:

my parents got divorced when I was 17...
it was and still is the worst experience of my life (but their divorce was and still is unpleasant)

you strike me as a strong human being (not just from this post, but in general).

don't be too strong.

know that your kids are watching your every move (if they're not reading this blog now, they will when they get older).

just whatever you guys do, let them know its not their fault (it sounds so cliche, but it brings tears to my eyes as I am writing it). and above all, never put them in the middle of what you are going through (though that is easier said than done I guess... which is why they will forgive you when they do)

stennex said...

Great to see you handling your personal life responsibly. The children are very important so be there always for them. Your frienship with you ex is also important. Hope that you find love again someday. Keep gaming. Get MGS4. See you online.

PSN ID:stennex

Zenchi said...

Nobody is perfect, I wouldn't think anything less of a person or greater. I read this blog knowing and assuming you have the same or similar struggles that others have gone through or are going through in their daily lives.

The one thing that brings me to this blog is the fact that you speak your own opinion and share your life and you allow others to partake in your ventures within those realms without asking for anything.

For people to come onto your blog and post for the first time in a negative manner is shallow. They obviously have not been interested enough to comment on anything until now. I seriously don't even think they understand that it seems more like a mutual agreement than a "I'm going to take all your shit and kids and leave you." type of thing.

I know I don't speak for everyone when I say this but I personally feel that working in the industry is harsh on family life in many ways. There are fun times and bad times and when you want to be a top designer or artist it takes a lot of your personal life away. I don't even own my own company and it gets intense. Some people can't handle that type of lifestyle, some people can. On top of all of the other types of shit that goes on outside of work, bills, family, health, etc...

I know when I get home it's like I never leave the studio/office. I get back on the computer and try to keep on top of things. 3D models here and there, maybe some gaming thrown in to keep me up to date on tech, art, or design and what not. I'm not saying these could have contributed to a decision like divorce.

I just wish people would relax a little and take it all in and look at things from multiple perspectives (and I know there are many on this blog that do). For a younger guy who is not married I think things like this bring everything back to reality and they are here to help you make your own realizations about situations that could happen in your own life.

I would like to thank Jaffe for posting this. Hell, this should even be good for him. I think it's healthy to vent and put things out there on the table. It's not healthy to feel weird or bottled up when talking to the fellow bloggers. We are lucky to be able to have a blog such as this because we've been treated as if we are friends and not just fans. Personally, I would only share things like these with close friends, we must be growing on him. Jaffe you big softy, go watch some action films or something.

-Josh

DBVII said...

I'm not sure wheteher to say "congrats" or "sorry". It sounds like you're just opening another chapter in your life, so I'll say "Good Luck"

On another note, are you pumped or does it upset you that Sony is giving away CACs for free with Qore? As a designer, do you feel like it cheapens the game or are you just excited that more people are going to be playing your art?

Anonymous said...

Coming from a 20 year old guy, whose parents are getting divorced...I think the best thing you can do is get the paper work/legality over as quick as you can.

It's killing me that I don't know whether the house I lived in for most of my life is going to be sold, how often (and in what context) I'll see my parents etc. so I'd recommend getting into your new routine, or at least knowing exactly how things will be, to stop anguish in your kids (if not yourselves too).

StareClips.com said...

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. I think part of the problem is really just a matter of syntax or semantics, which is where I think a lot of strife happens whenever the term "marriage" is thrown around (especially when it comes to "gay marriage" for instance.)

I know this is going to sound a bit off topic, but you'll see where I am going with this. If I (being male) were to have sex with a woman, and later said, "I just had homosexual sex with that woman," there would be some confusion. If someone who happens to be homosexual tries to correct me, I could just say "Oh, so just because I'm straight, I can't be a homosexual?" The obvious answer is, "well, yes... because that's what the word means." But, if I get a bunch of people to rally behind me, saying that homosexuality isn't just for gay people... straight people can be homosexual, too... etc, etc, etc... although this sounds confusing on the surface, it isn't much different than one happens on a regular basis.

Take for instance, marriage. The original definition was a union between a man and a woman. As soon as, for instance, a lesbian says she wants to get "married"... this invokes a picture of the lesbian wanting to join in a union with a man because, after all, this is the definition of marriage. The response is "no, I want to be married to another woman"... then suddenly there is confusion, because the definition of the word itself is suddenly getting changed. To ease the confusion, people create other terms like "civil union"... but there are huge protests, because in order to "fit in"... those who are homosexual want to be treated exactly like everyone else, so they want to use the same words... such as marriage.

This type of thing dilutes, confuses, and complicates the meaning of the words. It would be no different than if the gay community were to protest because they, too, want to be able to have heterosexual sex just like everyone else. Does this mean they are no longer gay, or because they are trying to change the definition of "heterosexual"?

So what does this have to do with you? Well, when the term "marriage" is thrown around... most people invoke the idea of the vows such as "for better or for worse" or "for richer or for poorer" or "until death do us part." So, the vows of marriage specially declare "marriage" to be unbreakable. This starts creating an alternate reality where there are two definitions of marriage... one which is temporary... and one which is permanent... but both use the same word: marriage. The fact that marriage can more recently be between two men or two women starts splitting the term "marriage" into all sorts of different definitions, meanings, purposes, etc...

As this happens, it dilutes the power of the word. The term DEATH is generally a powerful word... it is absolute. If, however, people started using the term to mean "a quick nap"... I'm really tired... I'm going to go die for a few seconds. After a few years of usage, suddenly "death" won't have quite the ring to it anymore.

It sounds silly, but it's something that seems to happen all around us every day. People are quite literally fighting over syntax and semantics. Those who were "married" under the context of permanency don't want their "marriage" to be diluted by those who use the term in a synonymous way as "current monogamous relationship".

So, again... I'm not trying to pass judgment in your particular situation (after all, I have been divorced.) But it's an interesting thing for people to think about. If you don't really see marriage as being a "forever" sort of thing... then why get married? If it is for tax purposes, maybe there just needs to be a way for people to form a civil union without having to call it a "marriage." If there are thousands of people every day saying "until death do us part"... who, years down the road just call it quits... then the power of commitment loses its meaning. You say you are committed to your wife (ex-wife)... and committed to your children... but the idea of marriage has to do with a commitment to the marriage itself. Saying what you mean and meaning what you say when it comes to the vows, which are meant to be a non-breakable promise.

Perhaps people are taking marriage lightly these days... they're saying the words... but just not giving too much weight to those words. So, like you said, marriage doesn't work very well for a lot of people. However, I think it's because there isn't one kind of "marriage" out there, in terms of using a single word. There are those who consider it to be a covenant... an unbreakable bond... and there are others who consider it to be a contract that can always be broken in court later through the form of a lawsuit. (As far as courts are concerned, a divorce is actually a lawsuit in breach of contract.)

You mentioned that two people staying together in an unhappy union sends a bad message to kids. I think that is shows that two people can always stay true and faithful to each other, no matter how hard life gets and no matter how many problems they may face together. It's unconditional love that is supposed to be a model of stability for children, to convince them that no matter how bad they may be... no matter how many mistakes they might make... that their family will always love them, will always support them, and will always be by their sides. No parent would ever want to "divorce" their children... the same is supposed to be the case when it comes to "marriage"... or at least the word I have come to understand.

The complications that divorce can bring when children are involved are those unforeseen things. She may fall in love with another person. That other person might be in the military or might have a job that sends them to another state. As a result, they may move away. This would mean, in a practical sense, that you'd see your children half as often as before. Or, a child might wake up at night feeling really afraid... not feeling 100% secure with only the mother around... perhaps because of the stereotypical notion that the male is the "protector."

I will say this... I don't believe there are two people on the planet who can be happy with each other FOREVER... without having regular challenges to find ways to make it work. Two people don't just suddenly become "unhappy"... it is a cause and effect thing. Just like a bank account balance doesn't just suddenly end up empty or in the negative one day mysteriously... you need a careful balance of deposits and expenses to keep things in order. Perhaps in the "new age" version of marriage vows, it could go something like this:

"I promise to love you when I feel good instead, resent you when I feel bad inside. I promise to communicate the things that aren't important, and bottle up the juicy stuff inside. I promise to be faithful to you until I'm ready to move on. When that time comes, we'll write the concluding chapter to our lives together and will be "just friends" again. Hopefully, I will be able to repeat this cycle with someone else, and I hope you can find someone else to also repeat this cycle with. Until death stops us all from continuing. I do."

Although this is generally not what "marriage" is... this is how "marriage" is treated. As such, its meaning is changing and people are becoming disillusioned by it. People will get marriage just as easily as they will use a pick-up line in a bar. It upsets those who take marriage more seriously, since the blameful finger is often pointed at "the idea of marriage itself." It isn't the institution of marriage that doesn't work, it is the execution of it. Saying that marriage is a disillusionment is like saying the number one cause of divorce is marriage, or the number one cause of death is birth. It makes sense, but is a meaningless comparison.

I tried to type this in as much of an ambiguous point-of-view as possible, but I realize it may be read as being a bit over-the-top. If you take offense personally, I apologize. The real purpose was to try to shine a light on the real problem that I think exists with marriage and other world issues... it's semantics... syntax... etc... Some people understand marriage and the corresponding wedding vows in a different way. Others have less traditional vows, modifying and tweaking things. However, everyone uses the same term: marriage.

Perhaps the next thing under attack could be communion. The next time I am sipping some grape juice and eating Ritz crackers, I'll tell everyone I am taking communion. Let's see how many more words we can all cause to lose their meaning. Anyway, I hope the best for you, your ex-wife, and your kids. It's great to hear that you are able to work through this amicably.

David Doel said...

Sorry or congrats, tbh I don't really know which to say :p.

I'm with you on the stance of marriage. The mentality that you NEED to get married is ridiculous.

But for me, and maybe this is a bad thing but I'm being honest, I want to get married by the time I'm 30 because the thought of dating while in my 40s and 50s does not appeal to me at all.

I want there to be that one person I chose to spend the rest of my life with, and marriage makes it harder to get out of that commitment, thus you work at it and try to make it work, even in the roughest times.

I mean, I'm 22, so I'm not going to say I'm an expert on this. Me and my current girlfriend have only been together for about 2 months. So I'm not expert on relationships. But I know where I see myself in the future, and I've ALWAYS hated the dating scene.

da criminal said...

Stare- again, thanks for the great post.

I love your view of marriage, it would have been great if that had been able to be my experience. But it wasn't.

Perhaps it's because we have a world that pressures people into getting married because it's the thing to do, thus creating marriages that never should have been created in the first place.

Perhaps it's because people- as a species- change. And when we have things like therapy and self-help books and the results of women no longer NEEDING a man to be happy- we are now allowed to value and honor those changes instead of shoving them deep down inside.

Perhaps it's because of having- as a people- lived thru enough shitty marriages and seeing the consequences of our parents fighting and yelling that we've come to realize that there are better alternatives for kids than the traditional nuke family. Hell, viewing a decent number of comments on this very blog post should show you that many children who grew up in families that stayed together would have taken the divorce over the yelling...and many kids who had parents divorce but where the parents stayed involved and loving and consistent and constant forces are doing just fine.

But whatever the reason, the idea of sticking with something that you've TRIED to make work (and trust me, while the details are personal, no one should assume this is a decision we've made on a whim), just seems like being a slave to an institution for the sake of hoping you'll get a pat on the head at the end of your life from society that says: good for you, you did it!

But were you happy? Was your spirit alive? Or did you give up your energy and power just so society's institution would give you a pat on the ass and a gold watch.

To me, that would be a tragedy.

And the bigger tragedy would be if my kids became- via my modeling- the kinds of people who lived such lives.

Take care- have a great weekend! And again, thank you for the great post!

David

da criminal said...

Ooops- sorry . I meant to say that there are ALTERNATIVES to a NUKE family assuming the nuke family is not working out. I do think- all things being equal- a great, healthy nuke family is a great way to go. I just think it's archaic to think it's the ONLY way to go. Hell, the man we will probably have as the next president was raised by his grandmother and his dad was out of the picture.

I think society would be better off if we all got behind the goal of happy, healthy, confident kids regardless of how that goal is achieved.

Joel said...

hey dave, i realize it has all been said before, but i'm sorry that things didn't work out the way everyone had hoped.

i think that as far as divorces go, yours appears be as healthy as they come. im so happy to hear that it was mutual, and that you respect and love your children so much that you'll stick by them, and be an involved father. hopefully they will understand that as they grow up.

keep on plugging man. maybe the best parts of our lives wouldn't be as enjoyable if we didn't have some sad moments to remind us how good the good ones are.

i am glad that you are staying as positive as you can. cheers to you, and your ex-wife, for being true and honest to yourselves. don't let anyone tell you differently.

StareClips.com said...

Again, thanks for having this exchange with me, David. I've said as much as I feel I should say in this situation. Since I have been down this road before (though in a different context,) I will leave you and peace and in knowing that I support you as a fellow human being. When sucky situations get thrown at us, it sometimes ends up messing with our heads. The best thing anyone can do is just support us.

Since it is only fair, without getting into too much personal detail regarding my situation, I will just say that I drove my (ex-)wife into the arms of another man. I was never abusive or controlling... and in fact, trying not to be "controlling" was one of my biggest faults. I made the mistake of thinking that letting her have freedom as a person meant that I shouldn't have boundaries for myself. As a result, I never clearly defined who I was... so she fell out of love with me and in love with someone else.

There are many things I could have done to prevent it from happening, but hindsight is always 20/20. As we were separating, I could have probably tried harder to stop it... but there was a point where I stepped back and gave up the fight. I was slowly losing myself and acted out of fear.

Some might think that it is silly for me to blame myself for anything... considering the circumstances. It would be like blaming the United States for what happened during 9/11. Are our government's policies overseas the reasons the terrorists took action? Sure. Does that make us responsible for their actions? No.

Everyone must take responsibility for their own actions... nobody can force you to take an action that you do not want to take. That's an important thing to remember.

On the flip-side, is there a lesson our government can learn? Sure. There IS a cost to implementing certain policies. It's not about blame, it's about wisdom.

I don't fault myself for what she did, but I do take responsibility for the ways I handled myself which may have ultimately influenced her decisions.

This is why, in my original post, I likened it to a bad car accident. Can every accident be avoided? Sure. But they're called "accidents" for a reason. There's no use trying to make people feel guilty every time they trip and fall. Nobody is perfect. All we can do is learn from our mistakes... learn from the mistakes of others... share knowledge... gain wisdom... and carry on the best that we can.

I am very happy in my new marriage, and hope that if the idea of having a wife to share the rest of your life with is something you "subscribe to"... I hope that you can find the new happiness that I have found. Just not with my wife... get your own. ;)

On a side note, I am a child of divorced parents. My mom and dad divorced shortly after I was born, so I never actually saw them together. Maybe this was for the best, because I didn't have to witness them separating. My dad essentially cheated on my mom, then left her.

Eventually, I had a step-dad... he eventually cheated on her, and they separated. By then, I was much older... so I was able to come to terms with it easily (I think.) It bothers me when some psychologists will say that children of divorced parents are more likely to get divorced themselves. In my case, I fit into that statistic... however, the circumstances in my case don't logically point to causality. Psychologists, counselors, or therapists can often be a bit annoying and one-sided-thinkers this way.

Don't worry about what society thinks... what your (extended) family may think... etc... just plan your course, follow it, and keep your chin up. Burying yourself in your work can help, but it can also send you to some darker places.

If you ever need someone to bounce stuff off on, you shouldn't have too hard of a time finding me, and I'm open for discussion. Otherwise, surround yourself with good people and keep riding this out in good spirits, as you have been showing so far. Take care.

NO FEAR said...

Hey Dave, I'm going throuh the same situation as well, only not for the same reasons.

Last year when my job of 23 years went to crap I took a positon offered on 2nd shift so I could be free to job hunt in the afternoons. I did find another job and I thought my probems were solved.

My second week in the new job back on first shift is when I found out my wife had a new friend.

Of course things were not always great, it was a roller coaster ride over the years. We had grown apart. I'm a hyperactive geek. I need to interact with my enviroment, so if I'm not gaming or online I'm running around outdoors doing stuff.

My wife is more of the layed back couch potato type. Her Idea of going out is going over to someone elses house and sitting on their couch.

Our kids are older, my son is 20 and daughter is 16. They are both still with me. My soon to be ex moved out. My kids being older had a choice on where they want to live.

Talking with my kids, friends and family I had realised I tried to stay married to the wrong girl for all the right reasons.

My kids and hobbies are my life and passion, I've always included them in what ever I did and tried to enrich their lives as well as my own.

Where I failed was trying to be a good dad a good husband, and a good worker (provider) all at the same time.

When I was succeeded at 2 of them the other whould falter. The point I'm trying to stress is even my kids saw the strain. My youngest came right out and told me enough is enough, I don't want to live like this, it's just so obvious mom doesn't realy want to be with you.

Another shocker was when I told my friends and family. The jist of the feedback was "You could do a lot better", "You will be better off" and even my Mom said "Maybe you'll find somone who will treat you nice, you deserve it".

No one I know personaly ever said you should try to work things out for the family. It was obvious to everyone that us not being together was the better way to go...

obvious to everyone exept me, I thought I had everyone fooled and I was only fooling myself.

It's not fun, it's painful, It hurts, it's challenging even trying to do it the best way for the kids. You all have to go through the 5 stages of emotional grief weather you want to or not. Don't fight it just let it happen.

hell, even the dog is stressing out.

I can't say I'm happy yet, but at least there is less stress, and pain in my families life now.

I also wish woman I have known as friends would stop hitting on me, even if they are only doing it to make me feel better. Even one of the teachers I've known since my son was in high school and that totaly creeped out my daughter.

I'm still soooo not ready for that yet. Sure I could use a good bang but the emotional baggage is still packed.

Peace

Anonymous said...

wow, david. that surprises me this happened (obviously), but i feel for you.

Max said...

That's pretty tough news David. I'm surprised you're that untouched by it in a way. I suppose since that's the case then you and your ex wife are doing the right thing. Sometimes it just doesn't work anymore. I've been there.

Barsinister said...

After a few days and reading some of the comments following mine, I think that there are a few things that just don't make sense.

Although semantics do play a part in the whole thing, thay are not at the root of the issue. The problem is people just doing things until they don't "feel" like doing them anymore...

What if a year from now, Mr. Jones makes a blog about how he's not committed to the "idea" of childrearing anymore. But he talked to his kids and they are fine with it, so everything's OK....

Six months later he decides to marry his dog. It's a committed relationship, so who are you to judge?.....

Someone once said that killing Jews was a good thing. Let's all follow that person's advice.....

If you think that those are silly notions, good. Of course they are. It really boils down to one's axioms, or foundational beliefs. Everybody has a starting point on which they build their worldview. I really felt that you had a mocking tone to anyone who believes different than you when you first began your video.

I am not really a hostile guy and I am glad that you and yours are working things out with the kids in mind.

Thank you for your time.

Skeptic said...

Hey Jaffe,

Something happened to me recently that seems to be kinda similar to your divorce, in the sense that I got a similar message from it.

I have an indoor garden and a light for it fell on top of one of my plants. Instead of explaining exactly why it happened I'll just state the effect of it. For starters, it broke off one of the top branches to my plant! At first this frustrated me for obvious reasons, however in a short time I noticed a huge change in my plant. It's remaining tops began growing even quicker than before, very noticabley. So the energy that was once put into developing the branch that broke off became distributed to the others, and it seemed to completely compensate. As a result I ended up no longer perceiving the event as depressing and in fact became kinda happy for it since it made a lot of branches that were once shaded grow a lot more. Perhaps thats akin to whats happening with you, the energy you invested in you wife has become redirected towards other things, which are now growing/developing a lot more.

aerera said...

TIME TO HIT UP THAT CHICK FROM HIGH SCHOOL YOU FANCIED THAT HUNG OUT NEXT TO THE GHOULS 'N GHOSTS CABINET, AM I RIGHT!?

*puts on shades*

Nah. Seriously, I hope everything turns out as best it can in this typically rocky situation for all persons involved.

Take care, man. Best of luck.

StareClips.com said...

@barsinister,

It could be equally said that your world view is to hear the small sound-bites that someone is willing to dish out to the anonymous public and to weave this together in the manner of which you are accustomed, then attack this idea as if it were a reality.

If you see David's post after this one, they didn't just pause the TiVo one day and say "wow, I just don't feel like being married anymore... how about you?" There is likely a much more complicated dynamic than that.

Stepping away from David's situation (which is much different than mine was,) and stepping into my situation (which is already years old)... my wife fell out of love with me... she fell in love with someone else... then she left me. As this transition took place, I started expressing anger in ways I had never done before (all verbal, but at much higher decibels.)

After she filed divorce papers and I was trying to formulate my response, something else struck me hard. People, all around me, were telling me "just be there for your child... put him first." My initial response was anger. After all, it was for his sake that I was most angry about her actions. Forgive her for falling out of love with me. Sure, I'm not nearly her best option on the planet. Forgive her for falling in love with someone else? Sure, he seemed like an interesting fellow. Forgive her for splitting my son's world into two? I'm still struggling with that.

So, when people were coming to ME and telling ME that I needed to put my son first, it made me feel like they were talking down to me. As if they were all lumping me into that cliche of "the dead beat dad."

The world (programmed by television shows and movies) seems to think that when a marriage ends, it's usually the guy's fault... especially when children are involved. It is always assumed that the mother is the nurturer and the father is the deserter. This was something I wrestled with quite a bit. This is why I needed to distance myself from the world for a bit.

As time went on, and my wounds started healing, I realized that these people didn't mean any harm. They were just looking out for my son. Given a different view, I should have praised their efforts... nodded my head... and said "absolutely" with a generous tone of voice. But my mind wasn't in that place at the time. I couldn't believe that while she was being "comforted" for what she was "going through," I was getting "lectured".

Now, all I get is "praise" for how I'm staying involved in my son's life. It still irks me sometimes, but I'm willing to keep an open mind that the way I am perceiving this "advice" is not the way in which it was intended.

Likewise, if you are "perceiving" David's announcement as being nonchalant, it's probably a good idea to assume this isn't the case. The reality of it is, he's not married to his blog readers. So, he really doesn't need open himself to us any more than he has to his wife. He has likely gone through some challenging times, some rough emotional roller coasters, etc, etc, etc...

And as the dust has settled, they have found themselves both accepting a separation. People can't be brow-beaten back into loving each other. It has to be up to those two individuals. Just because David wasn't crying on the video doesn't mean there haven't been tears shed.

For two people to fall in love again, they usually have to break down all of the walls they have built up over the years. They have to put themselves back into their earlier shoes when they were first falling in love. They have to think back to only the good times, and yearn for those times. Then, they have to realize that love isn't just one of those things "that happens"... love is one of those things that you make happen.

You can't date a girl unless you have the courage to ask her out. You can't get married unless you have the courage to propose, or accept a proposal. You can't let someone get to know the real you unless you let them see all of your faults as well as your strengths. You can't re-kindle love unless you're willing to be courageous once again and do something that seems unnatural, like getting down on one knee or opening yourself up to rejection.

We can't be courageous for another person, we can only cheer them on. If they have already walked away, there's no use in shouting "you can do it" anymore. Lessons have to be learned, and usually they are best learned the hard way.

This isn't about people deciding not to raise a child anymore... to marry their dog... or to harm Jewish people. It's about two people who were once in love and, over the years have built up hard shells around each other. They now both appear to be two different people and, as a result, are wondering how they got to this place. And now, they are walking apart... committed to being separate parents and committed to be civil towards one another... just no longer committed to the relationship. It's not about the kids... it's not about a dog... it's now about Judaism... it's just life.

The only instruction book on marriage is The Bible. For those who are not religious, they enter into marriage without instructions. Inevitably, this leads to a mess in the end. The next best thing are self-help-books, like Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus (which is a pretty good book, by the way.) Even still, it requires effort. Time gets divided. Children require a lot of time. Work requires a lot of time. House keeping requires a lot of time. Managing things like finances and handling sudden life crises takes lots of time. If time is not made for the marriage, and if this time is not productive, it will fall apart just like anything else would.

So, this likely isn't a story about a man marrying a dog or wanting to harm others... it's simply about a man walking out of the fire and smoke of a marriage which crash landed into the trees.

David said...

Hey David,

It's great that you don't look at it as this devastating event that's going to slowly destroy you, your work, everything and everyone around you. It seems that you've put more than enough thought into it that you obviously know what you're doing alongside your "ex-wife/best friend" in a mature, well-reasoned, and thought out manner.

PERSONAL STORY HERE:
Your mutual split, if it can even be called a split (seems to me that you both will still be in each other's lives quite a bit, so the whole being separate thing seems odd to imply), reminds me of a relationship I had in my earlier college years. I was with this girl, and it didn't occur to me until it was over that it was one of the greatest relationships I've ever had. It was a mutual breakup: she was going to transfer out of state after the semester (yeah, it only lasted a single semester) and we both had the foresight to tell that we ultimately couldn't keep the relationship going long-distance; neither of us were willing to pay that price to stay together. So we did the logical thing and just ended it in favor of our own personal endeavors. Looking back, it was the best thing to do. It was that much easier to let go because, like in your situation (I assume), our communication was clear (I made sure of that). We were both on the same page on almost everything, and in the end, we gave each other closure (something that a lot of relationships sadly don't have).

With my current girlfriend, the communication is the same: we can talk about anything with each other (politics, sex, religion, etc) with absolute honesty and openness, and there's no danger of it being for the birds (at least none that I know of).

As far as the marriage discussion from your last post goes (along with stareclips.com who posted about gays getting married), I see it as a "union" between two people, and none of this "man and woman only" business. That whole "civil union" term for gay marriage, in my view - that thought doesn't end until you either accept, establish, or even imply the concept that homosexual love is somehow *LESS* than heterosexual love...and really, who is anybody to make that decision? Any "authority" on any two people's marriage, religious or not, has no say that takes higher priority than that of either of the two parties involved. It's mainly about how *YOU TWO* feel, and anybody outside of that can, in all fairness, go fuck themselves with their own opinion, some of which are driven by religion's influence. It's so great that you're an agnostic, and some people here are giving advice based on religion, so you're already in different schools of thought. :-P

Why should you give a shit about how other people are going to look at you? What makes them above you in the first place so they can "look down"? Just because you're not doing it the way everyone else is? So what? In all honesty, I don't think people are doing it right way yet; they're just doing it the way it's always been done, and it's obviously not the right way for everyone, considering the after-effects.

You keep doing what *YOU* think is right.

...and stareclips.com, my apologies if this offends, but the Bible's a pretty sketchy "instruction book" on just about everything it discusses. The quickest way to become an atheist is to read the whole thing objectively, cover to cover. I mean, you either accept all of it or none of it, right? Don't pick and choose. Picking and choosing certain verses is not exactly staying consistent with anything, and it really undermines the whole "the Bible is a great foundation" thing, taking only what you like. I know the analogy you made sounds tied up real nice with a bow on top and everything, but I think those who follow the Bible a little too closely, like in a "it's a factual history book" kinda way, aren't exactly the greatest role models, and, if I may be so bold, they don't produce the smartest members of society. The Bible is a bit dodgy and dances around a lot without really taking anything head on...at best.

StareClips.com said...

@david (not Mr. Jaffe),

I agreed with everything you were saying until you started speaking one-sided, like someone straight out of a religious cult. "The night time is the right time... the night time is the right time..." (I hope you get the reference.)

No worries. I didn't take offense at what you said because you don't know me. I'm just curious why there are a number of assumptions you appear to make, unless I read your message wrong. First, you seem to imply that I "pick and choose" from the Bible. Next, you seemed to imply that I "follow it too closely", though I will admit you may have simply been warning me about "those others" and not actually implying that I was "one of them."

In any case, I'm not sure why you consider the Bible to be a sketchy "instruction book". Maybe it's just because this isn't an appropriate place to debate such things, so you can make a blanket statement without backing it up without concern about further discussion on the topic. Then you go on to imply, almost scientifically, that those who follow the Bible are bad role models. Is this to imply that people who don't are good role models? Or are you just saying that there are bad role models who read the Bible and bad role models who don't read the Bible alike? While I would agree there are lots of people who read the Bible and are also bad role models, I don't believe this has anything to do with reading the Bible. Nor would their choice of food (unless they got drunk every night) or their choice of movies (unless they took their children with them to porn flicks.)

For Mr. Jaffe's sake (and for his readers' sake) I'm trying really hard not to actually state my beliefs but am only specifically trying to figure out the reasoning that led you to type your message in response. I'm assuming that maybe something I said offended you, though you didn't specifically state this or point it out.

For instance, I knew a controlling father that preached to his children, threatened to shoot them and himself if they fell out of line, etc, etc... I also knew a not-quite-so controlling father who wouldn't let their children go to school (they were home schooled) and was convinced that Disney was the devil. So, trust me, I know a lot of so-called Christians who are terrible testaments to the faith. However, I also knew an atheist who was in a relationship and in circumstances that are too complicated for this forum, he raped another girl... felt guilty about it... and decided to spare his girlfriend from the shame of this, he shot her, then himself. He failed to kill himself (the bullet gazed his skull) and he ended up in the hospital (the ward that deals with the mentally ill.) I'm not sure where he is today or how he is doing (I wasn't direct friends with him.) But I don't go around telling people "being an atheist turns you into a murderer," because drawing that conclusion would be absurd. It is quite possible that had this individual been a Christian instead of an atheist, he probably would have still ended up doing what he did... but instead, people would have said "man, that whole religion-thing screws people up big-time."

The reality of it is, this guy was screwed up to begin with, with or without religion. I personally feel it was his upbringing, which is often the case, which is really sad because this means he was never truly given a decent chance at life.

Keep in mind that the Bible doesn't "produce" people. People are born, people are raised, and people either seek purpose and find God, seek purpose and don't find God, or don't seek purpose at all. These people can be intelligent... psychopathic... future presidents... or factory workers. There isn't some sort of special demographic for someone who is religious, though the media might focus more on one group than another. It's just one group is more entertaining. The religious husband and wife who raises two healthy daughters and runs a recreation center to give children something productive to do after school isn't going to get the kind of press that a psychopathic serial killer who carves Bible quotes into the foreheads of his victims would.

Saying that all of those who take the Bible seriously aren't the smartest members of society is like saying that those who don't finish college aren't the smartest members of society or those who ever smoked pot aren't the smartest members of society or those that are [insert chosen race here] aren't the smartest members of society. I disagree with you equally on any of these claims, because intelligence, taste in food, sexual prowess, career competency, or any qualities such as this have very little to do with religious beliefs, taste, paths in education, entertainment choices, past decisions, race, or other qualities such as these. Sure, there are sometimes a distinction can be made, but it doesn't make it a cause-effect sort of thing. A person's intelligence has a whole lot more to do with genetics, opportunity, encouragement, childhood, etc...

The Bible is a very significant instruction book that covers everything, but it isn't a book to just be handed out and to have anyone and everyone understand it. It is, in the prose it is written, the archaic language it is written in, and the complex messages, meant to be read in a scholarly fashion, not just as if it is some sort of trash mag. I don't think there is any other book on this planet more misunderstood than the Bible. This isn't the place to debate such a topic, however. I apologize to Mr. Jaffe and to other readers, but I felt that fair is fair.

On a side note, I'm curious why you compared the difference between "marriage" and "civil union" meaning that "homosexual love is somehow *LESS* than heterosexual love". Do you feel that the term "civil union" is somehow *LESS* than the term "marriage"? If so, I find that to be very curious. Do you think that the term "eating crackers and grape juice" is somehow *LESS* than the term "communion"? If so, one day is there going to be a debate suggesting that people should be allowed to have their "communion" recognized by the government, even if their not religious? I think that, for most people, marriage really is only a civil union. They're in love. They want to be with each other forever... so they go into a church to get married, but they aren't religious. That just seems odd to me. If someone weren't into poetry, why would they join a poetry club? Just an example. If they just wanted to write one poem on a whim, just do it. No need to go all out. The same thing goes for marriage. If you're not religious, but want to be able to file taxes together, just go before a judge and form a civil union. That's all marriage is when it doesn't have all of that religious stuff attached to it.

I don't know, I think it's all just splitting hairs... it just sounds pointless to me... like people are so bent out of shape trying to change the definition of words. There are much better things to occupy our time with.

StareClips.com said...

Sorry for the double-post, but I just wanted to apologize for my atrocious grammar mistakes. I typed this out rather quickly, and the mistakes I made weren't because I didn't know better, but because my fingers sometimes can't keep up with the speed of my thought, so I make silly mistakes from time to time. Yes, I know the difference between their and they're. ;)

David said...

"I'm assuming that maybe something I said offended you, though you didn't specifically state this or point it out."

I should've mentioned it before, but it was this that struck a nerve with me:
"The only instruction book on marriage is The Bible. For those who are not religious, they enter into marriage without instructions. Inevitably, this leads to a mess in the end"

I may have gone overboard and said a few stupid things and made a few blanket statements I shouldn't have, but I felt compelled to counter it. I just wanted to say that the Bible *ISN'T* the only way. Personally, you can have a life with love, happiness, and goodness, only you don't *NEED* a being like God/Jesus in your life in order to have it. If it works for you, then fine, but it's not the only option. There are other ways.

The pick and choose thing, completely my fault. Sorry. It's just that a lot of people I've known before really do that.

The "following" bit, it wasn't you personally, it was "those others."

The role model was your latter q, "there are bad role models who read the Bible and bad role models who don't read the Bible alike"...again, go back to my "the Bible *ISN'T* the only way" response.

Interesting story, the guy really was screwed up to begin with.

The "smart" statement was just way out of line, I agree, and I'm sorry for it.

"Do you feel that the term "civil union" is somehow *LESS* than the term "marriage"?"
That's the impression I got from those who tried to deal with it legislatively. To me, it was just about the fact that they weren't referred to by the same name. It just felt that they were trying the "separate but equal" thing again. I forgot ... Marriage - Religion = Civil Union. It still leaves a question, however, not here.

Yeah, there are better things, like Mr. Jaffe's life. :-P

We're such silly geese, wasting space...I might have acted a bit hastily in my reactionary response, for which I do apologize to all reading this drivel, especially you Mr Jaffe. You shouldn't have to deal through this on top of everything else.

Anonymous said...

keep your head up dave!

you still the man

barsinister said...

I don't need Jaffee to in any way justify his beliefs or his decisions about his marrage. What set me off initially was what I percieved to be a "mocking" attitude towards people who may hold more traditional values, myself included. He continues to mock them, even in his follow up post and I really think he just likes to mess with people. (Sorry, Mr. Jaffee, don't mean to talk around you like this.)

When he wrote once about taking his daughters to Disneyland, wow we have kids the same age. It was all very relatible and quite fun to read. Anyway, I'm done, I really don't know why I even typed this much.

StareClips.com said...

@david (not Mr. Jaffe),

I'm sorry that I struck a nerve when I said, "The only instruction book on marriage is The Bible." I think it would have been

clearer if I had added a word. "The only instruction book on CHRISTIAN marriage is The Bible." The Bible has a lot of information

of what Biblical marriage was intended to be, its purpose, its expectations, how to manage it, etc... Of course, there are now all sorts of different definitions of marriage... non-Christian marriages... same-sex marriages... etc, etc, etc... (Some people even have their pets "get married".) So, I guess using just the word "marriage" opens someone up for misinterpretation unless they use more words to clarify. This is one of the reasons why I think it is so silly for people to try to fight for the use of the same word, as if it is some sort of "equality" thing. That would be no different than ME trying to fight for the right to say I am a "woman" when I really am not. But why should only females be able to call themselves "women". Don't males have rights, too? Again, a silly argument that one would say could never happen and is an exaggeration... but factor in certain surgeries, and we're not too far off. There is also a woman somewhere who is fighting to have chimps be called "human" so that a particular chimp could have "human rights." Do a search on Google for the article.

I have been to quite a few non-Christian weddings. I have been to a Bahá'í wedding. I have even been to a wedding between a

Catholic and a Pagan. That was very interesting, to say the least. As unusual as these have been (since they do not exactly follow

the Hollywood-style ceremony,) what usually strikes me more are the non-Christians getting married in a Christian church, with a Christian priest, and with passages being read from the Christian Bible. It just makes me think, "why?" It's not about "rights"... i.e., of course they have the right to do as they wish... but it's just a curiosity question of, "why would someone not of the faith base the start of a long-standing relationship on pretending they are something they aren't?" It's like having two actors getting married on screen. We all know that they were just acting, so nobody is going to hold them somehow accountable for saying vows to each other. Only the fictional characters got married, not the actors. But when it's not a movie being made, but real people in front of real witnesses, why would such a show be put on if it isn't for real, in terms of the religious aspect?

This is why I really think the Church needs to be separated from the State a whole lot more than it claims to be. I think that many people who get married are doing so for the logistical reasons of filing taxes together, etc, etc... And in this sense, why does the government need this to be a "marriage"? Why can't it just be based on two people who live together and share their income and their expenses? In which case, same-sex unions should absolutely be possible. I mean, I know the real answer probably lies in the fact that giving tax breaks to man-and-woman marriages means increasing the likelihood that men and women will get married, which increases the likelihood that they will have children together, which will increase the number of future tax-payers. Maybe I am making a far-reaching "the government is evil" type of statement. I'm really not that jaded and usually just accept the world I have been born into, but there aren't a whole lot of other logistical reasons I could come up with.

The funny thing is... though I am no Biblical scholar... is that the Bible mentions that marriage isn't for everyone. That not everyone is intended to be married. It says that marriage is difficult, and never promises that the outcome of being married is happiness. So, this notion that "everyone is supposed to get married" comes from somewhere else. Maybe it's Hollywood? And on a side note, you mentioned that "you can have a life with love, happiness, and goodness, only you don't *NEED* a being like God/Jesus in your life in order to have it"... and I agree. The Bible doesn't claim to be a book on making you happy, etc... Christians don't live happier lives than others... Christians aren't wealthier, nor poorer, nor less sinful or more sinful, etc, etc, etc... This is over simplifying it, but Christianity is more of a set of guidelines of being humble, respectful, non judgmental, and honorable. These same lessons might be regurgitated in law... or regurgitated in a Karate class... or regurgitated in the Boy Scouts... etc... Of course, just being a good person doesn't make one a Christian, I know... but really, a lot of the qualities that some "Christians" display... are not qualities of the faith at all, and to call them Christians would be like calling a chimp a human. Once you do that, then the word "human" loses its meaning.

I don't believe in God because I feel that I "have to"... I just do. Just like any other quest of belief, I sought... I found... and I accepted. I also happen to believe the chicken came first, not the egg. I also believe the glass is completely full. Half full of water and half full of air. And I believe a reasonable person can believe that the tree in the forest DID cause a sound wave, even if there were no witnesses to the fact. Of course, this depends on how someone defines the word "sound"... but this is neither here nor there.

Anonymous said...

Mr Jaffe.
Its been a while,and I'm sorry to hear,watch you video..you look well(as far as one can see through the distortion)
As a previously divorced..but now happily married man I think we go into these things with great expectations,rather than being in the hear and now.At this moment in time I'm happily married..that is a fact.
So I hope your kids are O.K...and I send my wishes to Em.
Best
Martin

Ben said...

Gooten Morgen Seemann :/
better luck another day man! don't worry! thing'll be fine :O and you have kids to look after! who are probably nice if you love em so much. :I i'm very sorry about what happened, althought i'm only 13 and my incredible lack of knowledge may take out the value of my opnion, good luck Jaffe
Ben,Israel

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