Ok, I saw this on a neogaf posting today:
++++++++++
Originally Posted by Edge 190:
First Nintendo will not be concentrating any significant marketing spend on the service - journalists attending Nintendo's preview event were told that it was their job to spread the word about WiiWare titles via reviews and other coverage.
... when asked a pertinent question about the limited Wii system memory was raised, Laurent Fischer, managing director of marketing at NoE, easily slipped into talking about how "geeks and otaku" were the only people who want this issue addressed.
+++++++++++
Ok, so if this is true, it's really, really sad.
And not so much because Nintendo seems to be telling a chunk of its loyal fanbase to go fuck itself, but because it's just reeks of junior high school vibe immaturity bullshit.
Ok, take this tangent with me for a sec:
Is it lame that I've seen the movie CAN'T BUY ME LOVE? Is it even lamer that I know the movie well enough that I can quote lines from it for a blog heading? Yeah, that is pretty lame. But fuck you, it's a good movie and Amanda Peterson- she of Explorer's fame- was the siren who sucked me in...and it ended up being a pretty damn good movie...
But anyway, stick with me here...cause Nintendo saying this- IF they actually said it- is like when Ronald put the lit bag of shit on the door step of the geeky kids he used to hang with...I mean, these kids were his BEST FRIENDS for years and now not ONLY is he too cool to hang with them, but he thought it was ok to shit all over their houses too?!?!
Well if this statement is true- if Nintendo said this- then Nintendo=Ronald. And you all know what happens to Ronald.
Well actually he goes back to being kinda geeky AND he gets the girl...but you get my point, yes? He was an asshole.
Now look: I like Nintendo. And I LOVE old Nintendo. And both old and new Nintendo have brought SO MUCH to this industry that they SHOULD be proud and excited and even a little cocky when it comes to their amazing accomplishments. Anyone in our business should envy their ability to read, direct, and redirect the market. And to also- when they want to- make some world class, ground breaking games.
But this statement, especially coming from a marketing person, reeks of one of two things:
a- arrogance at a level that should make Nintendo- if this statement reflects the core of the company- very ashamed.
b- a marketing person who has no real clue about games and thinks she's being cute and coy by dissing the 'geeks' cause she thinks the mainstream loves them now....if this is the case, she really needs someone to sit her down and explain to her which side her fucking toast has been buttered on for years and will eventually get back to being buttered on....
Ok, so that's what I'm thinking today.
Grr!
Back to work :)
David
Posts
59 comments:
I concur.
I won't go off on a tangent about this whole casual games revolution...
But - IF there's one thing I can't stand, it's people speaking down to me. I've been playing Nintendo games since I was 5 (I'm 24 now,) and I always find it amazing when PR people treat us - gamers - as complete morons. Ugh
And even if we HAPPEN to be the "minority"... we're the loudest and most influential "minority," so they better take heed. ;)
Fuck yes dude. Hit that right on the money. If anything being a nerd is "in" now a days anyways. How deep is Nintendo going to dive to attract the attention of soccer moms and old farts. Five years from now are we going to see fucking Nintendo brand colostomy bags? Fuck me.
This reeks of the same mouthspeak that seperate the "casual gamer" and the "hardcore gamer".
The people that care are those that build your fanbase.
It reminds me of when someone high up in the gaming foodchain made the comment of "were trying to reach a broader audiance rather than please the hardcore gamers".
That game failed and lost it's fanbase mow they are "going back to their roots" and their new game is being made "in the spirit of" it's past success.
It fine to aim for a broader audiance, but if you forget your hardcore audiance you lose the cornerstone of your community.
They must interact with the hardcore gamers just don't ignore them. Give them the right to play more of there games LOL.
http://social-network-web-design.blogspot.com
The other side of the coin is how all these services (WiiWare, Live Arcade) have been hyped to deus ex the whole indie game scene into the spotlight. The truth is that it's all turning into just another retail channel that's too cost-prohibitive for a little guy to get into, let alone compete in.
So they're Ronalding the gamers on one side and Ronalding the indies on the other. After being a gamer forever and a dev (or wannabe) for a good time now it's like they aren't expanding an existing audience, they don't even want us nerds anymore.
That was definitely not a good thing to say.
So to get this right, here's what I think happened...
--------------------
A = Laurent Fischer works for Nintendo
B = Nintendo has a big fanbase consisting of
.....said "geeks and otaku"
C = It's okay to belittle said people
...and so the programming logic goes...
(A = B) != C
--------------------
right? ("!=" means the opposite of "=" by the way)
Well, now I'm going to consume less Nintendo products now...WHO'S WITH ME?!?!? We'll show her what "geeks and otaku" can do! >8(
Oh yeah, and David....you've got great movie taste, man.
*half sarcasm/half serious, all approval*
Haha, I actually remember seeing commercials on TV for that movie!
Firstly, I believe Laurent Fischer is a guy...but who knows...besides that, why go off on a long rant about Nintendo being an asshole company and that they should be ashamed of themselves because of something that could possibly be true? I mean, we are talking about something the marketing director of Europe(right?) said...
I mean, from now on, am I suppose to take anything that you say as what Eat Sleep Play stands for as a company? I think it's a tad bit silly(slightly understandable...but silly non-the-less).
But really, I think this all goes back to tone not traveling well through text. Which I'm sure is something you know about...considering that you stopped blogging once or twice because some misunderstood what you said.
No doubt he was wrong in saying what he did and if this shit hits the fan he'll probably lose his job, because you just can't say stuff like that toward your developers and think it's okay.
However, I would be more interested in seeing an exact transcript of what he said instead of this little snippet. Wish someone had it..
*but whatever*
-tapion440
Oh, and for the record, I wasn't serious about boycotting Nintendo. I can't live without my Nintendo past.
*hugs his NES, N64, GameBoy (brick, Advance, SP), and GameCube like a mother hen*
Why, Nintendo, WHY?
But that IS Nintendo in a nutshell. The minute they command the marketplace, they think it's ok once again to tell their fans to go fuck themselves in the ass WHILE TAKING MONEY FROM THEM, and it's not like they were all that great to these poor Nintendo fans during the bad times, but it's the good times when you can really see what kind of company Nintendo really is. If Nintendo had a fickle userbase like Sony's they would have gone out of business a decade ago. :|
money talks david, money talks
First off all, let me just say I love your blog Jaffe, I think its awsome that a Game Developer actually takes time to communicate with his fans and talk to them as a fellow gamer instead of shutting us down because your a big shot developer (Its my first time posting so I had to say it). Anyways, regarding this Nintendo nonsense, I dont know. I have been a fan of Nintendo for a long time but ever since they started with all this "casual gamer" stuuf with the wii and everything, I´ve really just grown tired of it I guess. Sure there are a few games that I like from the wii (and I do think there a lot of potential there with the wiimote and everything), but come on, it seems like they just gave up in making new awsome games for gamers and now all they want is to do more stuff that MORE people will play so that they win MORE money. I have felt this way since the beggining of the cube honestly, I mean the only games that I really like so far for the Wii are the same old: Mario (Kart, tennis, party, etc), Zelda ........Im sorry those are all I can think of, I have never been a big Metroid fan. Anyways, Im rambling, I guess Im just waiting for something new from Nintendo, Software-wise, but I have a feeling there is going to be a lot of waiting.
By "cube" I mean Gamecube. And by Gamecube I mean since the Gamecube was released. Just so you know.
Strange, I knew someone from Highschool with the exact same name as this Nintendo Spokesperson, "Laurent Fischer". She's about 19 right now, which seems too young to have a prominent job in Nintendo, but maybe for some strange reason she was able to get one.. This would partially explain why this statement "reeks of Highschool immaturity bullshit". Probably not the case though, since not only is she young but she also is just a severley messed up person imo. I can't imagine her geting far in any widely known organization, let alone Nintendo.
I'll be honest and say for the most part I'm not a fan of the Wii. I don't care for ANY of the sports games on it, nor for any of the other games that try to mirror some physical activity you do in real life.. It just seems like their trying more and more to put games on the same level as sports/excersize, which is to say their trying to make games more and more like sports/excersize. I find such an idea absolutley repugnant, to say the very least. I want games to have their own seperate reality, with their own defining characteristics, not to be some horrible attempt at copying something I can easily just do IRL. I mean, If I really want to play sports or some other physical activity, I'll just do it in real life where I can derive much more satisfaction from it. I can only imagine the very physically frail or fat people wanting to play these type of games, or maybe also the socially inept. That's my view on it.
When Nintendo announced WII FIT as their big game last year I knew this is what it would lead too. They are pandering to their audience with half baked sequels (smash bros and mario kart are the same game as last time. Be honest. Downgraded at worst. Same game at best.) And they sell trendy gimmicky crap like Wiifit to their "broader" audience. Now when that audience forgets the Wii, like they forget all trends, what is Nintendo left with? Yup thats right. The same group that yawned at the Gamecube and wished they had never bought a Nintendo 64. The next generation will see a huge backlash against Nintendo. They were given their mantel once again and this is what they did with it. It will not be forgotten. You'll see.
Well again- I have no ill will against Nintendo. I love what they've done for the biz and I think it's great they are expanding the market and definition for what a game can be and what a gamer can be.
My issue is with the disrespect they are showing via statements like this- again, if it's real- towards the very gamers that- thru their passion for Nintendo's work- gave Nintendo the MONEY to experiment and wade into the new Nintendo era in the first place.
I think it's FINE if the big N wants to become a pure casual game company. Heck, I'll miss the more gamey stuff from them, but to each his own.
I just don't like the way they seem to be pissing all over the folks that built them up as a company in the first place.
And again, this is ONE person who works for Nintendo. I don't think this is the company line.
David
Ah, I used to love the name 'Dark Odyssey'. It was always my fav.
How goes it dave?
Great blog man, I can't add anything better. You're right; Nintendo is back to being pig-headed like their Yamauchi days, and I can honestly say for the first time in my life that the next Nintendo system will really have to "earn" me back in order to buy it. I'm very unhappy with the direction the company has gone, and their apparent arrogance.
But anyway, great movie reference for a great blog. Let's all do the African Anteater Ritual now :) For you, Jeff:
http://tinyurl.com/6d87ku
Wait, David Jaffe is teaching about the negative effects of arrogance?
...
HAS THE WORLD GONE MAD!?!
Are you all crazy!
Nintendo have the best videogame ever now, better then gamecube, n64, snes and nes. This really are a revolution not to me but to many and many people. Nintendo go right.
I espected this poor opinion on God "fuckin shit hack slash game" of war players, a game without creativity.
If you dont like Nintendo Shutup and go to play your fucking PS3 and X360. Nintendo are better and make fun to all really fanbase.
David Faffe is not a Nintendo fan he is paid to say it.
Thank you David, for saying it, no one else has called Nintendo on.
I sent an email complaining but doubt I'll hear anything back, as they have already proved the complete lack of respect for their customers.
Hopefully more people in the industry will call them on it and she or Nintendo will make a public apology.
But until then I'm voting with my wallet and not buying any Nintendo products.
Thank you. I said it at the time and it's about time someone in the business said the same thing.
Their comment was the straw that broke mt back though, and I've now written Nintendo off (as my own blog response said) because there's only so much I'm gonna take. First we got "nobody wants long storylines" then "we're not interested in hardcore gamers" and then this - no more.
Grats to Nintendo, you lost yourself a 20+ year fan.
Sad but true.
The most part of Nintendo fanbase dont like the HD idea.
Let me put it simply so the "smart" brass in Nintendo can understand me (hopefully):
The "small percentage" of hardcore gamers and otacus is the core of your user base and as such are the main generators of your income (direct or indirect) so if they (we) are saying the space is NOT enough then there must be a reason for it ...
So you can listening to them (us) and try to see what they (we) meen or start loosing them (us).
P.S.:
"nobody wants long storylines" - WRONG a good and relatively long storyline can sell a game to more people than just the good looks (not that you (big N) can compare with the competition on looks)
"we're not interested in hardcore gamers" - And what are YOU interested in? Making a product that nobody wants? Or? Aren't exactly that the people the other users ask for recommendations? Or reviews?
When I was about 10 I used to sneak goes on brother's Mega Drive, because I was so much of a Nintendo fanboy that I didn't want him to catch me playing a SEGA game. That's all changed now. While I have little empathy for Sony or Microsoft, Nintendo's direction and attitude over the last few years has totally alienated me. Fuck them. This latest news just confirmed my suspicions. If you ask me, the only games company that seems to genuinely care about its fans and care about video games is Capcom.
The same group that yawned at the Gamecube and wished they had never bought a Nintendo 64. The next generation will see a huge backlash against Nintendo. They were given their mantel once again and this is what they did with it. It will not be forgotten. You'll see.
Are you on crack? ~_^
Mario 64 on the Nintendo 64 is probably the best game ever made, even Edge (which Jaffe is a fan of) concluded it.
Nintendo sets the standards, Nintendo is a GAME COMPANY to the CORE. Nintendo is all about fun, nothing more nothing less.
I agree completely David..I think you'll find Laurent unemployed after this week.It was really a dumbass comment
Nintendo of Europe is a shitty organization and is a bitch boy of NOA (which of course is a bitch boy of NCL). NOE has no clue about Nintendo's official policy on expanding storage, particularly Iwata's recent comments that this issue is being closely watched by NCL. These idiots have made clueless comments in the past, and they will continue to do so until Iwata, Reggie, or both start laying the smack down on them for talking too much shit.
Nintendo of Fake is pretty much right. This was some dude from Nintendo Europe, who are really, profoundly peripheral to Nintendo's actual operation. It's an annoying-as-hell comment, but not really all that relevant.
Well said David.
watch out with the Nintendo Fanboys.
And yes Nintendo its no a super fuzzy-cute-bunny-kitty company.
I mean... wii weel ? what a steal man !
You'd think the guy responsible for God of War would spell PSIRENS correctly, wouldn't you? ;)
I wonder how would Nintendo of Japan, the head company would feel if this was brought into the light on their eyes.
I betcha he is not counting on us to report it to his superiors, since Geeks and Otakus don't do these sorts of things.
Laurent Fisher is a guy, genius.
lol
http://kotaku.com/5016274/nintendos-fischer-apologizes-for-geeks-and-otaku-comment
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=151184
Don't those morons at Nintendo realize that if WiiWare catches on with the masses, then everyone's Wii's will fill up with downloads? Without a way to at least play the games off of the external SD card slot, once the Wii fills up people won't be able to buy any more games from them unless they delete something. And the average Wii owner probably isn't savvy enough to know how to backup to the SD card slot, and how to manage all of that.
Wow. After 2 failed consoles they finally hit the mart of casual gamers so they tell the rest to fuck off.
Good one Nintendo.
Well said Jaffe, Nintendo of America needs to remember and respect their roots.
I'm friends with alot of casual gamers and many of them ask me for good buys, esp. downloads. They talk to me for finding good retro games for download and even they, the casual gamers, main clientel of the Wii, are upset. check the internet, long time nintendo fans are pretty respected for both opinion as people and as reviewers. lots of wii owners depend on reviews to ensure they make smart purchases. We love nintendo but when one jerk starts verbally jacking off, i want a respectable apology, not some drippy "i'm sorry." StareClips.com is right, we are a powerfull group. I still think that nintendo will get something done about this, they won't miss an opportunity to sell something, but they have to remember not to look down at its buyers or its in serious trouble, bad press spreads. Nintendo is secretive and hopefully the people working on this and higher ups are working on something and are simply not telling its PR guys, to avoid leaks, so that they can surprize the opposition with another win. Still I am blood hungry and i want punishment dolled out on this guy!
wow, what an intelligent statement. geeks being offended by PR for being called geeks, seriously WTF, why do you even need to comment on this.
Ah that's right because you're a pretentious jumped up little c*nt who by thinking if i make a comment on this i can boost my profile somewhat.
fuck off and rot you stupid bell end.
News at 11, Nintendo insults geeks, Jaffe gets insulted...
Also, are we talking about the same market that got Nintendo to third place last gen... oh noes, whatever shall Nintendo do without them?
Well I think the reason this Nintendo comment is so stupid is because it is simply just... wrong? You just need to mention a PS3 to a male and he will start blabbering on about what a mechanical powerhouse it is and will start listing off its specifications on autopilot. Its called being a MAN, and its the same as talking about cars, televisions and digital cameras. If you have a dick then you like the small shiny gizmos filled with as many numbers as possible.
If Nintendo want to make stupid outlandish comments thats fine by me, I dont own any of their consoles anyway.
ALSO Jaffe I would like to congratulate you on your choice of magasine, I am a big Edge fan have been for years and if you check the readermail for letters written by SWEEP that would be yours truely.
Peace and Love mate
Sweep
Seem to be making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill.
It was an ignorant and uneducated comment yes, but is it any less so than Jaffe not knowing what sex the PR idiot was?
Well... Nintendo with the N64 kinda spit on 3rd parties. With the GameCube, didn't manage to get them on board. Now with the Wii, their making a shit load of money with them.
Soccer Mom won't care about the Wii in less than 2 years from now. Nintendo better convince the 3rd party to do games for gamers, because gamers will still be around in 2 years.
The casual trend that Nintendo created is a short burst of popularity for a company that hasn't been able to sell consoles for the last 3 generations.
When 3rd parties realise that casuals aren't selling anymore, they will also realise that Wii is shit and can't compete with other consoles... the 3 main issues being the power, the online and the storage.
Don't get me wrong, you can make great game on the Wii (Zack & Wiki and Resident Evil 4), but the reality is that when you buy an hi-def screen, a kick ass home theatre and hi-speed internet, you want the best of the best... and to me 480I isn't the best!
i eat people
Damn their is a lot of Nintendo bashing in this. I got this to say, any dumbass can make stupid immature comments even if its a PR guy in Europe everyone has that potential? Does that mean Nintendo really believes what the stupid PR dude said and "shits on its fans?" I don't think so I think w/o Nintendo everything would be shit right now. Nintendo jumpstarted the industry backup and w/o them you wouldn't have your damn 360s and PS3s and PSPs (eventhough those are great systems in their own rights).
They made that shit what it is today. They made most genres what they are today. You can dis all you want on Nintendo in the end w/o them we all would be fucked. Dave I understand exactly how you feel about this I mean it is bullshit he talked down on Nintendo "geeks" but it definitely has nothing to do with Nintendo as a company its just some dumbass PR guy that is in NOE which nobody gives a shit about NOE anyways. As far as the Wii sucking cause it only caters to only casual gamers?
Bullshit it does not there are plenty of games that are for hardcore gamers maybe not as many as casual but if you like gamey games then games like Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, Smash Bros., Zakk and Wiki, Fire Emblem and Metroid cater to hardcore. Now maybe those are 1st party Nintendo games but who gives a rats ass? As far as third parties go MadWorld looks awesome No More Heroes kicks ass and then not to mention many more that I can't think of right off the top of my head. The Wii has virtual console which is awesome for people who want to play some old-school games that they no longer have access too.
Then you have WiiWare which is a genius idea that will allow game developers everywhere to develop games for Wii on a budget and not have to spend millions to put out a game. Square-Enix did this with Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life As A King and Capcom will be doing this with Mega Man 9 which will use 8 bit NES graphics and be modeled off Mega Man 2 and 3 for the most part. I know the Wii needs more storage and Nintendo even said they were looking into it and seeing what they can do. this PR dude is just a dumb jackass and hopefully his dumbass gets fired for such dumb comments.
hey david. your blog is really cool. you should know that you have alot of fans from iowa. so are you working on the new twisted metal/god of war? my friends and i wanted you to know something. thank you so much for making games. keep up the good work. we need more people like you. if you get a chance go see batman. it is awsome!
Although the blog had a very juvenile tone, it is correct. Nintendo's refusal to address the Wii's problem with limited internal storage space will probably go down in textbooks as an example of poor business. Why does Nintendo rigidly hold onto this position when it results in discouraging its consumers from buying more products? And then to cap it off they insult us for being good customers!
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I would be angry like that too if my close friend did that to me even if he didn't mean to do that because that's just being stupid.
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